Highest n/sec counts?

This area is for discussions involving any fusion related radiation metrology issues. Neutrons are the key signature of fusion, but other radiations are of interest to the amateur fusioneer as well.
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Warren_Kistenbroker
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Highest n/sec counts?

Post by Warren_Kistenbroker »

Hey All,

I am getting back into my fusor research and I was wondering if there was a place or resource for the highest neutron counts that have been reported on this forum along with the voltages, equipment and settings that were used. Also if there are any references to different materials that can be activated at the different n/sec rates. I am looking into designing a fusor system that is not glass as I am interested in trying to achieve activation as proof of fusion so I want to begin my design with these goals in mind.

From my research it seems people are using a variety of different elements for activation and different methods of detection. Is there a good book that talks about these processes, the different materials and elements that can be used and produced?

Thanks,

Warren
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Finn Hammer
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Re: Highest n/sec counts?

Post by Finn Hammer »

Warren

It is all in the FAQ's
Why not start around here:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=5901
or here:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=5903
That should get you started with the materials, then search in other forums for the rest.

Cheers, Finn Hammer
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Richard Hull
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Re: Highest n/sec counts?

Post by Richard Hull »

Warren, You ask for a lot here with little in the way of qualifications. There are no tables that you ask about in relation to neutron production and activation. Information abounds in the forums here.
There is a FAQ on activation that I did a while back with a PDF on amateur fusor activation. you can read it here.....

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=12251

In short, Silver is by far the easiest element to obtain and can show easy activation at or below 200,000 n/s TIER. Silver is currently about $26.00 per troy ounce, but you only need a small piece of it in the form of sheet although many here used a full 1ounce .9999 pure bullion coin.

Rhodium is the ideal element and the more rapidly activating at the lowest neutron output of all the elements on planet earth. I use this element only, now. I have activated several other metals in the past. Nothing touches Rhodium and It can easily activate at very low neutron numbers. (well below 70,000 n/s TIER) The issue is the price. Rhodium is currently off its high last year of $28,000 per troy ounce and has plunged to only $18,000/troy ounce. Fortunately I bought my thin foil strip two years ago for $600 when it was only $10,000 per troy ounce.

Indium is readily available and a good element to activate. It is just slightly more expensive than silver.

Every other element on earth is more difficult to activate than these above three if you have low neutron production. They are either terrible relating to having a low to worthless cross section requiring very large neutron outputs from a fusor to activate...or.....They have a good cross sections but many hours or day long half lives requiring a fusor to be run continuously for many hours or days to activate well. (something almost no fusor can do)

Manganese, gold, and iodine fall into the much tougher, yet viable elements to activate. These have been done here by high output fusors.

What you ask is complex to answer. we might ask....

What do you want to do?... Just activate a metal and then claim a win? How much time and money to you have to spend? A good 250,000 n/s fusor that can easily activate inexpensive silver might run $3,000 or more to assemble and build assuming no skills and no pre-existing gear on hand.

Again, is your goal to win and leave, just seeking to get into the elite fusioneer class? If so, you will have to jump through a lot of hoops to get there. We already have a bunch of folks in the neutron club who did fusion and we never heard from them again.

Edit: seems Finn and I posted at the same time.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Warren_Kistenbroker
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Re: Highest n/sec counts?

Post by Warren_Kistenbroker »

Thanks for the replies...

Ideally I was wanting to setup a system that I could implement for setting up different experiments to investigate activation and what metals can be activated based on n/sec output while experimenting to find different methods that could increase it. I haven't found many resources on how (experimentally) neutrons activate different metals and it seems that theory largely disagrees with experimentation in many cases. The best resource I have found is this forum. Just trying to get a grasp on what a fusor can do and figure out what 'tier' I should shoot for. Are there any good books you recommend to understand how this happens in theory in regards to why some metals are easier than others?


I would say my goals are to get to fusion, prove it is happening and develop methods of calibrating n/sec like I have seen many do here. From there id like to develop different power systems, add magnets and look at other methods to apply to increase neutron output/or learn how and what drives different reactions.

I am also not sure if activation is considered a LENR but I have been highly fascinated with radioactivity and high voltage for quite sometime and would ultimately like to develop the platform I need to begin to understand it myself through experimentation.

I am dedicating a pretty large room in my lab to high voltage research with vttc's, thyratron switched line type pulsers + pulse transformers, and high vacuum fusion. Its been a bit of work moving things around to get to this point so I will continue looking through this forum for as much info as I can. I want to try and spend my money wisely since much of the equipment is very specifically used.

Warren
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Richard Hull
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Re: Highest n/sec counts?

Post by Richard Hull »

LENR is a term used in the study of cold fusion. CANR (Chemically Assisted Nuclear Reaction).....LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reaction).

The fusor works on the principle of a normal fusion reaction (intrinsically thermal), but in velocity space and B.O.T (Beam On Target) it relies on Quantum tunneling (pure chance reactions) at suitable probability using a large group of fusion fuel ions in an uncontrolled morass of this kind of junk flying about with an unknown fraction at fusion temperatures. The fusor does real fusion the regular way it is known to occur. Nothing low energy about it. Everything that fusions in a fusor is at fusion energy. It is just that very little of the ions in a fusor are at fusion energy at any given moment and even fewer of those that are, will ever fuse.

A high energy pot luck. A high energy crap shoot. A high energy continuous rolling of a quadrillion dice with maybe a million per second coming up box cars or snake eyes. That's our fusor. The FAQs are loaded with all this info for years now. We fuse, we do O.K. We activate a few metals.

You want to activate a lot of metals? Shoot for 5e6 n/sec with long and continuous smooth operational characteristics. (that is10 million fusions per second within your fusor)

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Warren_Kistenbroker
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:16 pm
Real name: Warren Kistenbroker
Location: Rocky Mountains of CO
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Re: Highest n/sec counts?

Post by Warren_Kistenbroker »

Thanks for the description, Richard.

It seems recently you have thought more about building out a cylindrical fusor vs a cross fusor due to the sharp edges inside the cross creating interference with the plasma field. It also seems like having adequate cooling around the chamber is also very important to creating these long run times....

While the uniformity of the plasma seems to play a role in achieving high n/sec counts, the cooling plays a role in how long those n/sec outputs can be maintained?

Are there any recommendations for specific types of ports or setups that are best for placing a target? It seems most activation is done outside the fusor through a veiwport of some sort, have many people done it inside the fusor?

Warren
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Richard Hull
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Re: Highest n/sec counts?

Post by Richard Hull »

Physically impossible to activate inside a fusor!! All the neutrons are fast neutrons where they are generated as fusion debris within the fusor. All activation occurs only with slow or "thermal neutrons". Read the FAQs!!!!

Fast neutrons go through anything including the fusor shell. We have a "moderator" assembly placed intimately near the fusor of Polyethylene or paraffin or water to slow the neutrons to thermal velocities via neutron-proton collisions in these hydrogenous materials. The material to be activated must lie within the moderator outside of the fusor where it can absorb the slowed or thermal neutrons. I called my moderators "Neutrons ovens" for years now as this is where the activation cooking occurs.

You really must read all the FAQs and see all the images of real systems with their plastic moderators intimate to the fusor. It is almost monkey see, monkey do with images and the reading explains in detail the why when and where in scientific terms.

The image I attach are seen in hundreds of images in different forms! You find them in profusion in the Construction forum, the Radiation forum and the images du jour forum for years now. Look! see! read! See the photos, learn the basics of fusion and neutron physics.

Richard Hull
Attachments
My current system found easily in the images within the radiation forum.
My current system found easily in the images within the radiation forum.
Very old image on fusor.net of another person's paraffin moderator (a bit over done but real)
Very old image on fusor.net of another person's paraffin moderator (a bit over done but real)
one of my first formal neutron moderators
one of my first formal neutron moderators
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
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