curious if this is possible

For the design and construction details of ion guns, necessary for more advanced designs and lower vacuums.
Post Reply
doug williams
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:46 am
Real name:
Contact:

curious if this is possible

Post by doug williams » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:59 am

I have been looking into the possibility of levitating a small food item, I read about this from an experimental chef who was using a handheld ion particle gun and had some success on salt crystals. Wondering what you guys think about the possibility of floating a small solid or liquid?

Other options might be helium, liquid nitrogen or superconductors? This again was mentioned in what I read.

I would think with helium you could do similar to a baloon, with a solid that had some elasticity? Spongecake that was really gooey and light?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated! Thanks!

User avatar
Chris Bradley
Posts: 2931
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 11:05 am
Real name:

Re: curious if this is possible

Post by Chris Bradley » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:16 am

http://www.hfml.ru.nl/froglev.html

A huge magnetic field does the job. Goes by the name of "Diamagnetic levitation".

Small objects can be electrostatically levitated, but I can't imagine you can do that with larger objects. It's a surface area/volume thing.

doug williams
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:46 am
Real name:
Contact:

Re: curious if this is possible

Post by doug williams » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:36 am

Thanks for the info that makes sense, now the question is could I potentially put a few of these spread out in a bartop and levitate strawberries or something of that size in them? Would this be safe for guests? It seems that there is no issue with the frog or animals. Hmm would wallets with credit cards be demagnetized if close by hmmm. Also how would I make one?

MarkS
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:07 am
Real name:

Re: curious if this is possible

Post by MarkS » Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:51 pm

16Teslas is fairly strong field, as in there are about 1-2Teslas in an MRI...So to answer your question, yes the credit cards would probably be wiped clean and you'd have to worry about the magnet pulling everything ferrous in room towards it, including the hardware holding the room together.

This topic is also way off, and in the wrong forum.

User avatar
Carl Willis
Posts: 2841
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 11:33 pm
Real name: Carl Willis
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
Contact:

Re: curious if this is possible

Post by Carl Willis » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:18 pm

Um...how did this end up in the Ion Guns forum? For that matter, why is it on this site at all? This is not a generic "how do I do X" message board.
Carl Willis
http://carlwillis.wordpress.com/
TEL: +1-505-412-3277

doug williams
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:46 am
Real name:
Contact:

Re: curious if this is possible

Post by doug williams » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:49 pm

I put it in this forum as someone mentioned that they might use an ion gun to possibly assist in levitating an item. Since the forum name was Ion guns, it seemed to make sense to post it there. I did not see any information about posting on the forums regarding credentials or lack thereof, so I posted to get some feedback. Again if there is a better place to post the question please let me know.

Andrew Seltzman
Posts: 724
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 1:02 am
Real name: Andrew Seltzman
Contact:

Re: curious if this is possible

Post by Andrew Seltzman » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:29 pm

Try making a bernoulli blower, it is what is used for most floating ball demonstrations. It might work for spherical food maybe donut holes or grapes etc...

http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/~ant/Berno ... index.html

On another note about the forums, I think the internet in general has realized that we are a knowledgeable group of scientific minds and has begun to seek us out for advice on other topics then fusors. Good scientific advise is hard to come by these days, and turning people away might not be the best solution per say.

We could set up a separate forum "Something entirely different" or the like so that all non fusor questions may be asked there. If we configured it such that posts there don't show up on the recent threads list it would be relatively compartmentalized and separate from the other fusor topics. Just a thought...

Andrew Seltzman
www.rtftechnologies.org
Andrew Seltzman
www.rtftechnologies.org

User avatar
Carl Willis
Posts: 2841
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 11:33 pm
Real name: Carl Willis
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
Contact:

Re: curious if this is possible

Post by Carl Willis » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:40 pm

Hi Andrew,

>I think the internet in general has realized that we are a knowledgeable group of scientific minds and has begun to seek us out for advice on other topics

I think the guy simply noticed that we have a forum called "Ion Guns" and recalled that someone told him you could use an "ion gun" to loft a piece of toast.

Dilithium, +5 agility, and the spleen of a Yeti may also be required.

Seriously, maybe we do have a bit of that issue you mentioned (not in this case), but that is why I think it is even more important to stay focused. I'm a strict constructionist about the forums' scope and purpose. If we lose our focus, I see us opening the floodgates for "science fiction", ill-informed pedantry, insipid rambling, word salads, and most of the other ills that prevail on the online general-science forums. We abandon that focus, and we become just another piece of science-related flotsam aimless on the tides of cybersewage.

I'm not an expert in levitating foodstuffs. If forced to do it (probably at gunpoint) or paid a consulting fee, I would offer ideas. But right now, my ideas would not be backed by particular experience or particular qualifications, and they are not ideas motivated by an abiding interest or personal endearment with the end goal. Luckily, we have right now a highly-focused message-board where flying cake is not "on the menu" and therefore a convenient and compelling excuse to not waste time (my own and others') bloviating on this topic. I don't deny the merits of flying cake to someone else, just note that I don't see that discussion being part of my purpose here specifically, or our purpose here generally.

-Carl
Carl Willis
http://carlwillis.wordpress.com/
TEL: +1-505-412-3277

User avatar
Chris Bradley
Posts: 2931
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 11:05 am
Real name:

Re: curious if this is possible

Post by Chris Bradley » Sun May 17, 2009 10:54 am

http://www.experimentieren.de/galerieEx ... =Galerie/c)%20Elektromagnetismus&bildname=Torte2.jpg

Post Reply