mystery ion gun

For the design and construction details of ion guns, necessary for more advanced designs and lower vacuums.
User avatar
Richard Hull
Moderator
Posts: 11532
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 1:44 pm
Real name: Richard Hull

Re: mystery ion gun

Post by Richard Hull » Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:42 pm

I remained stunned that this love of muons continues and that folks think that you can create muons on a kitchen table. I think, from scratch you are looking at between 10 million and 50 million dollars to make your first muons. They just aren't in the picture for any human experimenter outside of high end, high power academia or Government projects.

Muons are proto matter and not welcome in today's super cooled universe. To make them you need to create a little micro-environment where the muons are brought back into existence for a microsecond or two with conditions being equal to those just after the big bang. No small task.

The age of the muons is long past.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

dudleyhd
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:03 pm
Real name:

Re: mystery ion gun

Post by dudleyhd » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:05 pm

im sorry guys i dont really know anything about this stuff i was working on something else that led me to this and all of the info lead to it being muons three days ago i didnt know what a muon was but now after what you guys told me it isnt possible so im on to looking at how a fusor works

User avatar
Carl Willis
Posts: 2841
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 11:33 pm
Real name: Carl Willis
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
Contact:

Re: mystery ion gun

Post by Carl Willis » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:42 pm

Hi Dudley,

No problem on the physics background. You're certainly welcome here: scientific curiosity belongs to people of all backgrounds, not just those anointed with a formal education in physics.

Operating a gas discharge containing water vapor, hydrogen and oxygen in the presence of a magnetic field will make various things: free electrons, various atomic and molecular ions, singlet oxygen, various free radicals, light. Muons are not even energetically possible unless any of the ions exceed the rest mass energy of a muon, ~100 MeV.

I note that muons are frequently part of the explanation for various quack new-energy schemes. The quacks probably read pop science articles about muon-catalyzed fusion (a real phenomenon) and think that they can lend the aura of scientific credibility to their quack efforts by tossing in some explanation involving muons. Of course, to those of us with a rudimentary physics background, these claims are laughable and the full extent of the quackery is instantly laid bare. It sounds like you may have encountered such a quack claim.

-Carl
Carl Willis
http://carlwillis.wordpress.com/
TEL: +1-505-412-3277

dudleyhd
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:03 pm
Real name:

Re: mystery ion gun

Post by dudleyhd » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:37 pm

thank you for being so nice to me . I belive i have come across that type of situation . This person on the net said that they took H2 O2 or HHO- gas and H2O gas then put it thru photon leds and a solenid magnet . Then it went to that tube he claimed was a magnetron and was pumped up thru the center and electrostaticly charged in some way that it made muonic hydrogen gas. What dose that sound like to you its probably hillarious right good thing. Glad i only have three days reading in to it.

Mr willis given the cobination could you tell me a few combination of what could come out of that chamber is H202 HO H2 O2 O H could it possibly be D20 or something ive never heard about . So i can reasearch what he was doing further . Also how is D2O made from water

The only benfit of this guy misleading me is i found this site i must thank him for that

Thank you James

User avatar
Richard Hull
Moderator
Posts: 11532
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 1:44 pm
Real name: Richard Hull

Re: mystery ion gun

Post by Richard Hull » Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:07 pm

Yes, You definitely hit one of those new energy, new age, muon catalyzed fusion fluff sites that Carl mentioned. We have had a few such "believers" arrive here with rather sad results.

Nonetheless, welcome to the discussions here. We tend to do fusion by the book and in well established order by the laws of physics. Not any chance of creating real net fusion energy, but we are doing real, honest d-d fusion, for sure.

Not a glorious undertaking, but a rewarding one for the average successful amateur fusioneer.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

User avatar
Carl Willis
Posts: 2841
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 11:33 pm
Real name: Carl Willis
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
Contact:

Re: mystery ion gun

Post by Carl Willis » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:14 am

Hi James,

>What dose that sound like to you its probably hillarious right

Yep, it's hogwash. This description uses some of the vocabulary, but none of the reality, of physics. I'd be hard-pressed to even believe that an experiment has even been done.

H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide), HO (hydroxyl radicals), H2, O2, O and H are all possible (and likely) chemical byproducts of an electric discharge consuming hydrogen gas, oxygen gas, and water vapor. The processes producing these are chemical, not nuclear.

D2O ("heavy water") is not so much made from water as it is separated from water. A small fraction (~ 0.03% weight) of naturally-occurring hydrogen, such as that constituting water molecules, is the isotope of hydrogen called deuterium (D or H-2). Its physical properties and chemical properties are slightly different from the more prevalent protium (H-1), enabling it to be commercially separated by chemical reactions or electrolysis. Deuterium can be recombined with oxygen to give D2O.

-Carl
Carl Willis
http://carlwillis.wordpress.com/
TEL: +1-505-412-3277

dudleyhd
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:03 pm
Real name:

Re: mystery ion gun

Post by dudleyhd » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:36 am

All the radicals that i listed above are what im looking for . So i just have to make an ion source and get a vacuum pump .Do you have any suggestion on were i could buy the materials to build a farnsworth style ion gun . I can surf the net but im sure you guys have found places that are cheaper than i would find . And some good detailed info. Your help is very appreciated . Also thank Mr willis for your help

This is the type i want to build viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4936#p32244

Post Reply