Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

For the design and construction details of ion guns, necessary for more advanced designs and lower vacuums.
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Brian McDermott
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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by Brian McDermott » Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:57 pm

Maybe feed it with deuterium. Would you get sufficient maxwellian heating for fusion with a big enough pulse?

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Adam Szendrey
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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by Adam Szendrey » Wed Jun 02, 2004 8:26 am

I strongly doubt that this would work. . I don't think that a simple 330 or 170 V (regulated mains) arc would be "hot" enough for fusion.
Anyway, this is what tokamaks are doing at large scale (if i recall correctly, they even used high power discharges to heat up the plasma, but the ions are not created via an arc), but there the temperatures (or ion energies) achieved are much higher.
As said many times, the fusor is much more efficient, as it directly collides deuterons.
In a tokamak, the ions collide in all directions, and just a very small percentage does that head-on. A lot of energy wasted.

Adam

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Brian McDermott
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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by Brian McDermott » Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:30 am

I was thinking of the Z-Pinch device when I wrote this, as it uses high energy discharges to heat a plasma to high temperatures and get fusion. The magnetic field is merely a product of the electric current that flows through the plasma. Now that I think about it, the plasmoid in the accelerator device is at atmospheric pressure, so mean free path would probably be too low.

Q
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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by Q » Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:47 am

here's a thought, make a coaxial version of this thing.
it might be somewhat like an atmospheric spheromak...

Q

shojidoug
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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by shojidoug » Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:12 pm

Fusion at atmospheric pressure's might be impossible, but the experience gained from trying to manipulate a plasma ball in open air conditions without time consuming and expensive containment and vacuum might be directly utilized in fusion experiments not to mention the eureka factor from accidental discovers. Besides it sounds like a lot of fun, so I ask again
How would you capture and keep it alive?

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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by Starfire » Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:23 pm

Capture is easy - use an inverted glass or ceramic bowl. Keeping it alive is another matter.

http://jlnlabs.imars.com/plasma/gmrtst/index.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s520317.htm

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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by Q » Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:38 pm

well, for this project i'm not trying to cause fusion, nor really come up with anything immediately useful. it just sounds fun. you know, a nice ball of plasma rocketing up into the air for a few tenths of a second. : )
though the expiriance could definately be useful later on.

Q

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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by shojidoug » Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:53 pm

Going through the early post on this subject I found this little tidbit by the esteemed Larry Leins "They never hit the ground unless they hit something to reflect them like a power line!"
So it would appear that something as simple as 3 rings charged with AC current arranged in a globe type configuration (2 smaller ones on the ends one larger in the middle) might be enough to hold it steady, that gives you 3 seconds to pump it with something before it dies maybe a stream of plasma containing the enhancing agents he talked about earlier or maybe E.M.P. would be enough. Any one else have any ideas?
Thanks
Doug

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Mark Rowley
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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by Mark Rowley » Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:18 am

I just recieved the book today. It only has a quick reference to this topic. It specifically points to a 1963 article by Scientific American titled "Shock Waves and High Temperatures. The article was written by Malcolm McChesney. Maybe with a little digging, someone can unearth this article.

BTW, I recommend the book( Termperatures Very Low and Very High). It covers just about everything in thermodynamics and provides diagrams of many different related(and obscure) devices. The last chapter titled "Beyond Infinity to Negative Temperatures" is especially interesting.

Thanks again Larry for book reference !

On the capturing and feeding of these plasma balls. Prior to my fusor endeavor, I was experimenting quite a bit with the microwave plasma phenomenon. I was able to capture the balls in pyrex jars and keep them going for 30 seconds. Beyond that, I usually had containment failure(glass shattering). I found that a continuous feed of carbon(smoke) would keep a MW Plasma alive for a long time. However, this required the plasma to constantly be saturated with high energy MW's. As soon as the MW power is shut off, the plasma instantly evaporates. As a result, I would doubt that the Leidenfrost Effect is in play here as it is with the plasma gun. From what I can now see, I dont think there are many similarities between the MW plasma and the plasma from this gun design.

Being that this plasma gun creates something of a much greater temperature(500,000K *per the book), I am not sure how long you could keep it going w/out containment failure. Maybe if the ball was shot vertically into a bell jar pumped full of a gas medium it would last longer. Very interesting project.

Mark Rowley

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Re: Although not an ion gun per say...plasma gun.

Post by steffan » Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:30 pm

Can the mains arc be substituted by a neon sign transformer?

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