Hand vacuum

[Nanos]

I watch your efforts with baited breath, I only wish I could contribute myself in that area.

I do also admire your drive in the face of many doubters, its people like you that make progress in the world, otherwise we'd all stll be living in caves

[001userid]

I'd say Mike's battle is well worth it.

Only about 20% of the worlds population has both the income and access to surplus items needed in high vacuum. Fewer will have access to the required components to fix or maintain those types of units.

A simple device used as an educational tool for the next generation would be of great value.

Considering the next generation may have little, to no experience with vacuum technology.

Joe Sal

[mikekan]

Nanos,
Joe,

Thanks for your support.

I have picked this forum because there is focused interest and it is free of the
capitalistic desire for profit.
The other forums are too general like Bill Beaty's science forum which there is little
interest and people just use the university's resources.
Other forums are even more specific than this one and have an emphasis on
specific process often related to some business like thin film coating.

Web searches for hobbyist high vacuum often lead back to Steve Hanson's
" The Bell Jar " via Don Lancaster's web page and magazine and many others.
Other links lead back to these postings.
Removing the quotes will cause the search engine to list millions of obscure
commercial sites and ultra expensive things.

There is not even a museum that is dedicated to vacuum science and technology.

The general public has no awareness of vacuum technology let alone any
knowledge of what it is used for or even how it works.
The schools are not equipped to show it and even the " Discovery channel light
bulb making video has omitted even the mention of the use of vacuum in the
process.
The AVS school outreach program uses the same weird pumps in the classroom.
These impart no knowledge of how the vacuum is produced to the young people.
Their education committee does not have any regular meetings.
Not even an annual meeting. There are no windows or forums web or physical for
public input.

The popular science museum the Exploratorum has a publication called
Exploratorium quarterly. In the Winter 1989 Volume 13, Number 4
" Getting Nothing from Something which features Van Otto's Magnimburg sphere
being drawn by the two team of horses, talk about beating horses.
IT would have been more effective if they had tied one end to a stout tree and
placed the two teams on the other side. Two teams pulling on opposite directions
have the force of one while two teams pulling in the same direction will have the
summed the forces to that of two. That would have been a better chance.

That issue showed on page 17 shows what would be found in a more advanced
text on semiconductor processing. It is the traditional rotary vane pump diagram.
The page title is named " Squeezing the air out " , but where is the " Squeezing "?
What does one Squeeze? There is something seriously missing as the Exploratorum
main mission statment was public partisapation in the learning of science.
Since the museum's founder Frank Oppenheimer passed away, it has been down
the dumbing hill for that museum. They have been purchasing or accepting
expensive microscopes for people to ogle over.

Science has earned a bad name in the public mind. Most of the people here see
science as very expensive, complex and useless.
Have conducted many a personal survey with students that I would meet on the
bus and ask what they remembered and if they have used it outside the classroom.
Most say they do not remember and just go on with sports and video games.


There are some immediate projects here and the work on a new pump has been
delayed. This is not the work where someone else will do it before me which is
very welcomed, but will see no progress forever if I do not put work into it.
You would think that given several billion people and 200 years would have
witness a viable challange to the stowart vacuum technology.

My web site : www.tinkerhack.com is an attempt to roll back the veil of archane
teminology and obscure " Unobtainium " of the science and technology
for the general public.

I am very thankfull that there are the few of you out there who can understand
the need to serve in the educational community and the general public.

Take care

Mike Kan

[swebster]

Michael,

I also want to thank you for all your hard work at trying to create a low cost and simple vacuum pump. I hope you succeed in it.

[nathematics]

Tom Ligon wrote:
> The refrigeration repair business needs good small pumps to recover refrigerant and dry out systems, and the better examples of those pumps are good enough for fusor work.
>
How can I tell which ones are "the better examples"?

[Richard Hull]

Better examples of anything always cost more than their lesser counterparts. While you may not always get what you pay for, useful, survivable items within any category always cost more.

In surplus stuff, the better and more surviviable and servicable models are always more expensive, not only new, but used as well.

Better brand names in the refrig biz that are good are "Robinair" and "Yellow Jacket", to name just two. The problem is that used refrig units can be worn out, mishandled, pieces of crap or pampered, well cared for units.

From what I have seen of used refrig system pumps, most are pretty blown up and used to death to pump what often looks like raw sewage! A cheap, brand new 3CFM Robinair direct drive can be had for under $300.00

All refrig pumps are very portable with carrying handle as part of the unit.

I have three such units and all are superb for good, solid, yet casual, vacuum experiments. My first fusor demos all used refrig pumps.

Nothing, however, beats a good Welch, Precision or Edwards pump for serious scientific vacuum work.

All of the above two stage pumps are designed to remove about 99.99% of the air from relatively large volumes, rapidly. This is not considered to be a good vacuum at all, but only a general or technical vacuum condition where over 100 trillion gas molecules are still found in each tiny little cubic centimeter of the supposed vacuum.

Richard Hull

[AllenWallace]

I also approved of the discussion of historical and alternate ways of vacuum
generation. I fear that there is a tendency for some people to think "in the
box", and I belive that Farnsworth would not approve.

[Carl Willis]

I certainly don't have a problem with the substantive parts of this discussion.

To clarify, the horse being beaten is Mike's incessant articulation of his ideological thrust, insinuating that a person "give[s] up so easily" and so forth if they have chosen to use commercial vacuum gear in their projects; purity-trolling his cause by accusing people like Steve Hansen of being industry shills; and repeating substantially the same rhetorical mantra

>"Do any of you know anybody else who is trying to liberate high vacuum technology?"

in nearly every thread he touches, as if he's the lone warrior on this front.

To the contrary, there are a lot of innovative people who grace this board and the goal of bringing high technology to the plebian home lab is near and dear to most of our efforts. However, when Todd said

>Use proven technology except for the stuff you are actually trying to invent or experiment with.<

he had a legitimate and very reasonable point. Vacuum is both a front for innovation in its own right, AND a means to other ends. The end-users who do not want to "reinvent the wheel" with respect to some of the ancillary parts of their project are not regressive industry shills who give up easily, they have simply elected to make their contributions on a different front.

This conversation has been had numerous times before, hence the strong odor of rotting horsepulp. No offense meant, just a little wake-up call...

-Carl

[mikekan]

Carl,

I am not asking that people refrain from using commercial gear.
It is simply that there are very potentialy viable high vacuum techniques that could
be explored given the knowledge of what a vacuum service air pump is about.

Not eveybody has the proper connections to obtain the commercial gear.

You do understand the strong opinions here because of the " the lone warrior "
situation here when it comes to the high vacuum.

There is a message on Steve's page stating that there will be something new
there. It has been delayed due to his other priorities. Would like to see the updates
soon.

Will have new material on my web site in several months.

So I do respect your opinion. There simply a need to have at least opposing
opinion as of the use of commecial gear.

Take care

Mike Kan