info about TPH-050

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Roberto Ferrari
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info about TPH-050

Post by Roberto Ferrari »

I have the following questions about the Pfeiffer TPH-050 turbomolecular pump:
-where to get the lubricating oil, or a replacement one.
-the resistances of the motor windings.
-the motor windings pin-out.
Thanks in advance.
Roberto
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Bob Reite
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Re: info about TPH-050

Post by Bob Reite »

For the lube oil, try turbovacuum.com, idealvac.com or provac.com. There may be other vendors that I have missed.
The more reactive the materials, the more spectacular the failures.
The testing isn't over until the prototype is destroyed.
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Richard Hull
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Re: info about TPH-050

Post by Richard Hull »

Duniway stockroom.com.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Ameen Aydan
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Re: info about TPH-050

Post by Ameen Aydan »

Hi,

I got a bunch of the oil that is specifically for this pump. Send me a PM and we can discuss pricing.

Thanks
AA
Roberto Ferrari
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Re: info about TPH-050

Post by Roberto Ferrari »

Hi Ameen

Thanks a lot, I already got a stock.
Roberto
Mark Sato
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Re: info about TPH-050

Post by Mark Sato »

I'd like to add to this post in case anyone in the future is looking for oil for TPH / TPU series pumps. I spent nearly a whole day searching for something suitable without paying an arm and a leg. The manual specifies T12 oil which I've had zero luck finding any mention of other than in a post on this very forum. However, I did find idealvac listing a substitution here: https://www.idealspectroscopy.com/Cambr ... pp/P103607. Needless to say, I had no appetite to spend nearly $250, so I started my long, convoluted search. The mfg of that oil lists it as being a substitute for HE-500 and TL-011. Well, those aren't cheap either. Looking through various substitution charts, I ultimately boiled it down to being an ISO viscosity grade 32 oil, which opened up options outside of the usual channels. I eventually found and settled on Ravenol ISO VG 32 (P/N 1330704), which under applications states "RAVENOL Vakuumpumpenoel ISO VG 32 is suitable for the lubrication of vacuum pumps (rotary vane pumps, diffusion pumps, turbo pumps), where mineral oils are required, as well as for mist lubrication and crankcase.", which can be found under $20/liter shipped in the US. That's MUCH more palatable to my wallet. That said, as of this writing, I have not yet tested it, but I have high confidence that it's a suitable oil for all those pumps listed in the idealvac link posted above. Prior to finding that, I had almost decided to go with Leybonol LVO 120 which I believe would also have been suitable, but slightly more expensive. Beware: these oils are only suitable for pumping air and non-reactive gases! If you'll be pumping nastier stuff, you'll need to find something else (read: more expensive).
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Rich Feldman
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Re: info about TPH-050

Post by Rich Feldman »

Please let us know your results from using non-super vacuum pump oil to lubricate a turbopump.

Familiar parameters are viscosity at various temperatures, vapor pressure, and chemical compatibilities.
But can oil be progressively degraded by fluid shearing, which might happen at uncommonly high rates in turbo bearings? That might be just a FUD thing, in my non-expert mind.

Mark Sato's quest reminds me of a quotation from the late Jobst Brandt, a prolific writer on bicycle technology subjects. In response to a query about chain lube, with dozens of branded products on bike store shelves, Jobst summed it up simply: "Oil is an excellent lubricant."
All models are wrong; some models are useful. -- George Box
Mark Sato
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Re: info about TPH-050

Post by Mark Sato »

With a sample size of one, and even that consisting of a used turbopump from the 80s with an unknown history, it would be difficult to draw a worthwhile conclusion from the results. However, the oil I mentioned isn't just some random one. Ravenol is a reputable German oil manufacturer and the product I listed is specified to be used for vacuum pumps, including turbo and diffusion types. It appears to me that pump oil can be reasonably priced unless you need non-petroleum types.
Matt_Gibson
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Re: info about TPH-050

Post by Matt_Gibson »

I’ve got a 071p…Do we have to replace the felt cartridge or can we just add oil to the old one? The only place that I have found selling the cartridges wants $130 (shipped). Seems like an awful lot?
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Re: info about TPH-050

Post by John Futter »

Interesting the oil spec is T12
T stands for Tonna and the 12 is the 25 degree Celsius viscosity
T oils are pure mineral oils that do not foam and have very low vapour pressures used in vac pumps of course and hydraulics, compressors especially refrigeration
a good Toil for mechanical backing pumps is T32
Mark Sato
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Re: info about TPH-050

Post by Mark Sato »

I know this is a bit belated by now, but was hoping to revisit the topic of oil. I never did get around to changing it, or setting up the vac system for that matter. I had run into a deal breaker in my experiment design that precluded my need for the equipment. Happily, I think I've since come up with a solution which I'd like to test, so now I need the vac system up and running.

After doing some more digging on the subject, I want to recant my earlier recommendation of the Ravenol ISO VG 32. I don't know how one substitution chart led to the next which landed me on a ISO viscosity grade of 32. This is the wrong viscosity. Using substitution charts almost exclusively was a dumb idea.

I used John Futter's post above to give me some more leads in my web search but it was hopeless. However, I believe he's spot-on about the oil, as it seems to me that it should indeed be around a viscosity of 12... More on that in a bit.

It appears that TL-011 (Pfeiffer) and HE-500 (Leybold) are for all intents and purposes the same. If you search for either one, there's a chance you'll land on an alternate products page saying it's compatible with both. For example on https://www.dymarchem.com/vacuum-produc ... ical-pump/ you'll find "Dymavac 500: is a turbo pump oil that is chemically identical to Leybold HE500 and Balzers TL-011 Turbo Pump Oils.", and something similar for Cambridge Mill Products CMP-500. Now, with a bit of searching for some datasheets, we'll find that these oils are basically what we'd expect for one with a viscosity of 12. Ok, so the viscosity seems correct, and a website claims CMP-500 can be used in a TPU/H-110. Is that good enough? Turns out the TPU-110 and the 170 use the same bearings (same Pfeiffer p/n). A replacement bearing supplier lists the required oil as Invoil-S. Great, yet another cryptic oil. However, this time we're getting somewhere with the MSDS! (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0598/ ... voil_S.pdf). In it we see "TRADE NAMES AND SYNONYMS: HE-500 ". Alright, so Invoil-S, HE-500, and allegedly TL-011 are all the same. And the viscosity? 12 cst. But it's when we look at the CAS number and the generic name field that suddenly the options open up. The MSDS states that the contents of Invoil-S comprise of 100% DIOCTYL SEBACATE, aka Di-2-Ethylhexyl Sebacate, aka Bis(2-ethylhexyl) sebacate. When we search for it online, we find numerous chemical distributors selling this (with the correct CAS number) at a fraction of the price of the vacuum equipment seller websites, with 0.5L being roughly $40. Furthermore, if I search for the chemical name and the word "viscosity" I find results that show that the chemical is in the correct viscosity range. I now have high confidence that this is a acceptable route to procure a suitable oil. My biggest uncertainty is the difference in purity (if any) between the products from the chemical suppliers and the stuff the specified as pump oils and what effects they might have (again, if any)
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