I've recently obtained an Leybold PR35 Penning gauge. Obviously, I have no controller, and I think that it will be close to impossible to obtain one soon, especially in a limited budget.
Do you think it is possible to fabricate a DIY controller? In theory it should be really simple - generate some 1.6 kV and measure the current (that should be extremally low). Is this feasible?
DIY Penning gauge controller?
- Nikodem Czechowski
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:56 pm
- Real name: Nikodem Czechowski
- Location: Poland
- Contact:
- Richard Hull
- Moderator
- Posts: 15037
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:44 am
- Real name: Richard Hull
Re: DIY Penning gauge controller?
Yes, it would be an interesting project, but calibration would be the main issue. The electronics would be easy.
Richard Hull
Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
-
- Posts: 163
- Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:30 am
- Real name: Cai Arcos
- Location: Barcelona, Spain.
Re: DIY Penning gauge controller?
In a spanish forum, they constructed a Penning Gauge from zero. They used a CCFL inverter and measured the current from the low side of the transformer to the ground of the primary, in order to avoid arcing and safety issues. As Richard stated, calibration is a problem which is pretty much impossible to solve without another reliable already known-good gauge. I leave the link in spanish:
http://www.cientificosaficionados.com/f ... 8ef16865b4
http://www.cientificosaficionados.com/f ... 8ef16865b4
-
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:07 pm
- Real name: Diego González Ãlvarez
Re: DIY Penning gauge controller?
Hello.
I'm the second person who made that CCG in that forum and I'm satisfied with the result. I haven't calibrated it yet but I use it to know relative pressures.
Best regards
I'm the second person who made that CCG in that forum and I'm satisfied with the result. I haven't calibrated it yet but I use it to know relative pressures.
Best regards
- Nikodem Czechowski
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:56 pm
- Real name: Nikodem Czechowski
- Location: Poland
- Contact:
Re: DIY Penning gauge controller?
Calibrating it might not be that bad. It's an Leybold PR35, so someone in the world might be able to measure the current... right? If not, then maybe I will be able to borrow a second gauge, or bring this one to someone.
Regarding the electronics - the HV is not that bad, there are plenty of ways to get a 1.6 kV and even to regulate it to a constant level. But what about the measurement? I have not searched for an in-amp that woul be ok with such high CM voltage, but this troubles me..
Regarding the electronics - the HV is not that bad, there are plenty of ways to get a 1.6 kV and even to regulate it to a constant level. But what about the measurement? I have not searched for an in-amp that woul be ok with such high CM voltage, but this troubles me..
- Maciek Szymanski
- Posts: 193
- Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:31 pm
- Real name: Maciek Szymański
- Location: Warsaw, Poland
Re: DIY Penning gauge controller?
Here you are the schematic of the Unima PWN100 vacuum gauge. It is combined gauge with two TC low vacuum sensors (G1 and G2) and cold cathode ionization sensor (GJ). There is also automatic range switching comparator for the low vacuum range, making the circuit a bit more complicated. But the basic circuit for the ionization gauge should be quite obvious. Sorry for the poor quality, but it is from the very old photocopy.
BTW the cold cathode gauges are rather unreliable from my experience. I have used the Unima reversed omegatron type and Leybold’s penning type and both had really annoying histeresis of almost one order of magnitude. The hot cathode gauges are completely different story and precision.
BTW the cold cathode gauges are rather unreliable from my experience. I have used the Unima reversed omegatron type and Leybold’s penning type and both had really annoying histeresis of almost one order of magnitude. The hot cathode gauges are completely different story and precision.
“Begin at the beginning," the King said, very gravely, "and go on till you come to the end: then stop.” ― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland
- Nikodem Czechowski
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:56 pm
- Real name: Nikodem Czechowski
- Location: Poland
- Contact:
Re: DIY Penning gauge controller?
Thanks for the schematic!
In the interesting area the penning gauge shoud have almost flat curve, generally speaking:
I = K * p^m
m is generally gas dependent. For nitrogen it is 1.17 and for helium 1.30
So only two parameters are needed, maybe I can calibrate with a low vacuum gauge and extrapolate the calibration?
(see here for the equation sourc: https://indico.cern.ch/event/565314/con ... ten_v2.pdf)
In the interesting area the penning gauge shoud have almost flat curve, generally speaking:
I = K * p^m
m is generally gas dependent. For nitrogen it is 1.17 and for helium 1.30
So only two parameters are needed, maybe I can calibrate with a low vacuum gauge and extrapolate the calibration?
(see here for the equation sourc: https://indico.cern.ch/event/565314/con ... ten_v2.pdf)