Proposal of a new type of electrostatic confinement reactor able to produce nuclear fusions with an efficiency superior

It may be difficult to separate "theory" from "application," but let''s see if this helps facilitate the discussion.
Patrick Lindecker
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:47 pm
Real name: Patrick Lindecker

Proposal of a new type of electrostatic confinement reactor able to produce nuclear fusions with an efficiency superior

Post by Patrick Lindecker » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:25 pm

Proposal of a new type of electrostatic confinement reactor able to produce nuclear fusions with an efficiency superior to 1

Hello to all,

For those interested by linear reactors, I propose a new type of electrostatic confinement reactor.
On the page below, you will find two papers about the subject and my simulation program called Multiplasma (freeware):
http://f6cte.free.fr/multiplasma_english.htm

For francophones, the address is:
http://f6cte.free.fr/multiplasma_francais.htm

Patrick


Patrick Lindecker
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:47 pm
Real name: Patrick Lindecker

Re: Proposal of a new type of electrostatic confinement reactor able to produce nuclear fusions with an efficiency super

Post by Patrick Lindecker » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:48 am

Hello Dan,

Thanks for this interesting paper.

However I know these technologies. The problem is that with a high current, you cannot confine a sufficient time and with enough concentration to produce fusions so as to have an efficiency >1 (i made do a lot of simulations and there is no doubt about this). This is due to thermalization caused by space charge and Coulomb collisions.

So I proposed a solution described in my paper. The goal is no more to confine the maximum time but to apply a repetitive working cycle (based on an ions injection - ions fusion - ions recovery).

Patrick

User avatar
Frank Sanns
Site Admin
Posts: 1553
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2002 6:26 pm
Real name: Frank Sanns
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA

Re: Proposal of a new type of electrostatic confinement reactor able to produce nuclear fusions with an efficiency super

Post by Frank Sanns » Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:19 am

Could you please elaborate on your statement of "efficiency >1". How are you defining this because even one fusion in a sea of a million joules is still greater than 1 even if it is only 1.000000.....1

Patrick Lindecker
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:47 pm
Real name: Patrick Lindecker

Re: Proposal of a new type of electrostatic confinement reactor able to produce nuclear fusions with an efficiency super

Post by Patrick Lindecker » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:21 am

Hello Frank,

It is well defined in my second paper (I hope...):
http://f6cte.free.fr/Proposal_of_a_new_ ... _Rev_A.pdf
The efficiency is the ratio between the kinetic energy of the fusion products supplied by the reactor to the consumed electrical energy.

As a minimum, this ratio must be superior to 1 and, as a better option, it must be superior to 3.333 (taking into account the standard thermodynamic efficiency of 0.3, which is pessimistic in regards with modern installations as nuclear fission plants for example). In fact, the minimum of 0.3 is even very pessimistic because with charged particles, using a "direct conversion device", the "thermodynamic efficiency" is close to 1 (perhaps 0.9).

For example, the normal efficiency for a Fusor in a standard void pressure, as simulated by Multiplasma, is around 1E-9 (yes not much...).

Patrick

Patrick Lindecker
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:47 pm
Real name: Patrick Lindecker

Re: Proposal of a new type of electrostatic confinement reactor able to produce nuclear fusions with an efficiency super

Post by Patrick Lindecker » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:24 pm

Hello Frank,

I'm rewriting my paper due to your remark:
>Could you please elaborate on your statement of "efficiency >1". How are you defining this because even one fusion in a sea of a million >joules is still greater than 1 even if it is only 1.000000.....1

In French, we make a difference between "rendement" (thermodynamic efficiency, number always <1) from "efficacité" (number >1).

In English, I cannot find such word to make a difference, so there is an ambiguity. Do you know how to define "efficiency" for a number >1. Thanks.

Patrick

User avatar
Richard Hull
Site Admin
Posts: 10871
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 1:44 pm
Real name: Richard Hull

Re: Proposal of a new type of electrostatic confinement reactor able to produce nuclear fusions with an efficiency super

Post by Richard Hull » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:14 pm

We have had this discussion many times here in the past.

You put in 1000 watts to a fusor and get out 10 microwatts of fusion energy. No energy is lost, only gained! The 1000watts plus the 10 microwatts of fusion. Thus, we have output 1000.000001 watts of heat energy. What are we seeking to do with fusion energy? Boil water! All the non-fusion energy is trapped within the fusor, save for the neutrons only which would be captured as heat in a water jacket or lithium blanket in a real power situation.

This makes the system over unity as a heat engine which is what boils water.

We have also done the calculations in the past and displayed, as such, that the fusor, as currently designed and used here, is more efficient in turning the mass of fusion fuel within it into fusion energy than the sun on the basis of volume and mass to fusion energy output basis. So, we are doing fusion a bit better and more efficiently than the nearest star to us.

Unfortunately, this and all fusion systems ever made on Earth, to date, have not produced one single watt of usable or demonstrable electricity. and not likely to do so in the foreseeable future.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

Patrick Lindecker
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:47 pm
Real name: Patrick Lindecker

Re: Proposal of a new type of electrostatic confinement reactor able to produce nuclear fusions with an efficiency super

Post by Patrick Lindecker » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:39 pm

Hello Richard,

Thanks for the reminder. Moreover, if you try Multiplasma (which is a simulator of nuclear reactor) you will see that the efficiency of a Fusor is very low (about 1E-9 or 1E-10), which will confirm your assertion.

However, this does not answer to my question: as I propose a system which goal is to have an efficiency>1 (i.e the kinetic energy of fusion products is superior that the electric energy consumed), I have in English (not in French) a problem to make the difference between "thermodynamic efficiency which is a number <1" and "efficiency" (which is >1, the efficiency must be superior to the inverse of the "thermodynamic efficiency" ).

I have to perhaps use "efficiency" for the thermodynamic one and "effectiveness" or "efficacy" for the efficiency of the reactor? (I don't know how these terms sound in English)

Patrick

User avatar
Frank Sanns
Site Admin
Posts: 1553
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2002 6:26 pm
Real name: Frank Sanns
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA

Re: Proposal of a new type of electrostatic confinement reactor able to produce nuclear fusions with an efficiency super

Post by Frank Sanns » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:28 am

I believe you are trying to differentiate between (rendement) yield ( like the nomenclature used in nuclear weapons) and efficiency which is a thermodynamic property.

If this is the case, then you are correct that the fusion products will have a much greater energy than their starting ion energy. Input energy of a typical Fusor will be on the order of 40 Kev while the yield from that reaction will be an He3 ion with 0.8 Mev or a proton with a 3 Mev . That is a fixed 20x to 75x energy gain for the productive collisions.

The problem being the thermodynamic summation of all of that. While the yield is huge per productive collision, there are statistically near zero productive collisions in comparison to unproductive ones.

Again, maybe it is semantics or language but the physics are the same in all countries. :-)

User avatar
Richard Hull
Site Admin
Posts: 10871
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 1:44 pm
Real name: Richard Hull

Re: Proposal of a new type of electrostatic confinement reactor able to produce nuclear fusions with an efficiency super

Post by Richard Hull » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:12 am

We are back to the fact that no one has yet produced a single watt of usable electricity by the fusion process. Fission distributed electrical energy to light and power the town of Arco, Idaho, 7 or 8 years after the first atom bomb was exploded at trinity. H-bomb to fusion electricity languishes 62 years later with absolutely no electricity produced, and not likely to in the foreseeable future. Lots of great ideas and countless billions of the treasure spent, yet, not one watt of electricity produced. I doubt that the 21st century will see any fusion energy either. Nothing in the pipeline but expensive ideas and a long list of abject failures.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

Post Reply