Using a neon sign transformer for fusion

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shazalee
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Using a neon sign transformer for fusion

Post by shazalee » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:00 pm

Hi everyone,
After a while of searching a came across this topic

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2799

that seems to be using voltages as low as 10kv and currents as low as 10ma. This appeals to me due to the possibility of using a neon sign transformer to produce neutrons. I've been looking around on this area for any reasons why it wouldn't work and I've found none, I'm interested if I've missed something in my research or whether this would work or not.

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Richard Hull
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Re: Using a neon sign transformer for fusion

Post by Richard Hull » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:36 pm

Wait! You are looking at the work of the king of fusion on this site.

No one, and I mean no one, is in Jon's class including myself. To read the low and whimpy 540n/s TIER that he reports at 10kv -10ma, you would need the skill set of a pro, (some years of neutron measurement experience) as well as the instrumentation of a pro, (many $$$$). Are you this well armed with knowledge and neutron measurement gear? It is more than instrumentation. It is in operational experience in fusion reactions that such work can be validated. Jon wins on all counts. I am sure that a very few others here, such as myself, who have, both, the experience and the gear can replicate the exact work that Jon has done in the post you give. Notice I said a very few others.

Here, in order to be credited with doing fusion, you must prove it beyond all doubt to a very doubtful audience of experienced fusioneers. This proof is not easy for a newbie to come by. We have rejected claims from people who claim they have good neutron detection gear solely on the suspicion they do not know how to use the gear. We know when and where measurable fusion occurs at the neophyte level of artifice.

Thus, no newbie can claim any fusion at 10kv - 10ma. Few, if any newbies genuinely understand our term of TIER (total isotropic emission rate). Pro's in the nuclear biz do not use TIER; they use neutron flux. Due to the low levels of fusion and neutron production and reduced external neutron counts, we are forced to use TIER. Measurable TIER with modestly good neutron counting instrumentation or bubble detectors begins at about 25kv and a current nearing 10ma. In general, the more voltage applied above 25kv and currents in excess of 10ma will produce fusion that gets ever easier to detect for the rank amateur to achieve believable claims of having done fusion.

I find it refreshing that you dug deep into the bowels of this site's old postings and have read a lot to gain knowledge. Unfortunately, you fell upon a plus-ultra example of Jon's finest work showing just how low a level where D-D fusion can occur and be proved by one of the best among us. We have discussed at some length, in many posts over the past years, just how low can you go and do fusion in the D-D regime. We are certain fusion can occur at 2 to 4kv and a few ma of current, strictly based on the quantum tunneling process. But it would be effectively undetectable.

We are all about doing detectable fusion and then ramping it up in voltage and current in subsequent operational scenarios to a level where abysmally easy and cheap detection is possible via "neutron activation" experiments. In neutron activation work, a neutron counter is just not needed!! Proof of fusion can come from a simple $100 Geiger counter with the fusor, fusion reactor turned off!!!!

Neutron activation can be detectable in the best fusors at about 30 to 35kv and 15ma.

Forget ever getting into the neutron club of fusioneers using a simple neon transformer as a first-timer-newbie.

I will say that if tasked at it, a tiny few here among the old boys could indeed do provable fusion using our best insturmentation with a 15kv neon sign transformer rated for 60ma on the name plate. But, why do it, when you can do activation fusion at 42kv and 15ma?.....to prove a point? Maybe, but that would just make newbies struggle to do it with all the doubts and difficult confirmation processes ahead for their questionable claims.

You can put your money in a good fusor with good detection gear at 30kv applied and be readily accepted or struggle with the lower voltage end and fight off issues and jump through hoops for us, putting all your money into super detection gear that we have to come to feel you are using correctly.

Your choice........

Richard Hull

P.S. I assume you have read the stringent requirements needed to be accepted as a fusioneer in the Neutron club.

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=12424
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

shazalee
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Re: Using a neon sign transformer for fusion

Post by shazalee » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:36 pm

Richard Hull,

thank you for your informative response, I have read the requirements to enter the nutrition club like you assumed but after reading your reply I am left wondering if the problem of too low a voltage is the only reason for its infeasibility for most. Would you get neutrons using the voltage and current you suggested and a more traditional vacuum level or is it the cathode that's a problem

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Dennis P Brown
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Re: Using a neon sign transformer for fusion

Post by Dennis P Brown » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:33 pm

I think you mis-understand the point Richard is making. The issue is detection of neutrons and the proof that one has detected them. Voltage and current as well as cathode design are secondary issues. Yes, 10 kV can do it IF one has the complex and proven detector system. If one wants to use ready available and (relatively) simple detectors, 25 kV or more is generally needed. Until one runs a fusor and deals with the rather difficult issues of igniting the plasma and making it stable, use neutron detectors/modulators and other issues, the methodology and progress is part of the proof.

shazalee
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Re: Using a neon sign transformer for fusion

Post by shazalee » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:55 pm

I understand that but I was wondering if I could get measurable fusion with this specifically as my cathode if I used those voltages like you said

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Richard Hull
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Re: Using a neon sign transformer for fusion

Post by Richard Hull » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:20 pm

...."using this specifically as my cathode"..... I assume you mean a needle pointed cathode, as from Jon's old posting? If so, yes! Again, higher voltages and currents will do more fusion in most any cathode configuration.

However, as voltage and currents go up, so does the power involved with the cathode heating and even melting. There are lots of flies in the fusion ointment and plenty of "gotchas" along the way. Try it and report back to us with data. You can be the first.

After all, "Research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing".

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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