Deuterium Lecture bottle

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Carl Willis
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Re: Deuterium Lecture bottle

Post by Carl Willis » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:45 pm

What I think we are seeing with these various outcomes in peoples' attempts to get deuterium is the effect of LOCAL interpretation of restrictive corporate policies. I think it has more to do with that than with some users being perceived as less qualified. As I've said before, I have a personal, cash-only account with Matheson, and my few discussions with people in the corporate office indicate my locally-crafted customer arrangement is probably unique.

Having letterhead, checks, and a business registration in your secretary of state's office might help create the sheen of respectability on a superficial level, but I happen to know it's insufficient to many chemical suppliers now. Cambridge Isotopes, for instance, wanted federal tax ID and a Dun and Bradstreet number as part of their background inquiry. Matheson's newest sales policy on "hazardous" gases actually asks the customer for SOPs and EOPs relating to chemical handling. Unfortunately, securing the supply chain for deuterium to "citizen scientists" will probably be an increasingly-difficult aspect of this hobby going forward.

-Carl
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Doug Coulter
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Re: Deuterium Lecture bottle

Post by Doug Coulter » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:35 pm

What Carl's saying is true in my own experience as well. I did have to create a lot of paperwork to get the D from Matheson. It happens I was employing a cop part-time - there's my security guy and plan, with a phone number and him ready to respond had they called (they didn't). My next door neighbor is a paramedic, which took care of that. I also happen to do electroplating, and have that track record for safely handling hazmat things (almost all of which are indeed far nastier than D, Cr2O3 comes to mind, as well as the cyanides). And my address has been doing business officially (as well as being where I live, luckily in a county without zoning) for decades, which can't hurt.

Therefore, I wasn't telling any lies when I told them I was a business location - it's true all the way, not just a paper chimera, I really AM a business location, as well as the place I live.

Which if you think about it, is actually true for almost everyone. I think attitude is key, still. If you work as a wage slave, you're still a business - just one that takes a cut in income and risk in exchange for a chimera of security and perhaps simpler tax papers (not much simpler, actually - and you're just paying your employer to do the fiddly parts instead). You provide your labor as a service, and get money in return - same as any "business that contracts services".

When I wrote software for a living, freelance - I did exactly the same thing but was my own "employer" -- though proprietorship and being a consultant meant I avoided the various disability and unemployment insurance taxes as well. Not much difference in fact, but depending on how you roll the paper - a lot to some people. I find the distinction meaningless - as the current situation with unemployment shows, you didn't really even get extra job security for taking that wage-slave job at lower pay than a consultant gets...you just depended on your outfits sales capabilities - same as me -- but lacked control over them due to how your employer was structured.

If the ship-to address is the problem, surely you have some friends who have a business that's "legitimate" no matter whose eyes are looking, and you could set up for delivery there...If you have no friends, well....I'd be addressing that one first.

I still have to believe (after decades of experience) that the impression one makes on the phone with the grunt on the other end has one heck of a lot to do with outcomes.
Why guess when you can know? Measure!

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Jim Kovalchick
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Re: Deuterium Lecture bottle

Post by Jim Kovalchick » Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:06 pm

...which is why you should make sure you buy enough for your anticipated needs when you do find a source. Buying restrictions will only get tighter in this country with our mentality. I agree with Carl that restrictions are part of overly conservative interpretations. An export restriction on deuterium in 10CFR has put the isotope in a category with suppliers well beyond that. Perhaps ignorance of the law is being intentionally compensated for by fail over.

I do recommend that the Matheson stipulations about SOPS and EOPS be used at some level any way. I expect that Mike will develop procedures for his fusor operations and that contingency actions for unexpected events are developed and understood ahead of time. We will be using the same safety procedures for electrical hazards and compressed gas handling that my station has at work. I would make them available here except they are proprietary to the company I work for. I also expect that each time fusor operations are conducted that a formal pre-job brief is conducted with all present. I think this is especially important for students and newbies like us.

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Re: Deuterium Lecture bottle

Post by jcs78227 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:13 pm

Doug Coulter wrote:
> I have many books that refer to CP as "commercially pure" *not* "chemically pure" and in any case, it'd be the rare case to call 97% "reagent grade" except in special situations. Not to pick nits though.


Doug,

I didn't call 97% reagent grade, in fact I didn't call anything reagent grade. I wrote that CP is a reagent grade abbreviation, not "reagent grade" or an abbreviation for "reagent grade." There is a subtly that is difficult to convey when you lack the ability lend intonation to words. It was written to mean the D2 was a reagent and it has been given a grade according to a somewhat variable standard, which is why percentage purity is preferred. I think you took it to mean that I was saying CP was "Reagent Grade" which has to meet much higher standards, as you clearly know. Rather, I assumed it would be understood that what I meant was chemicals for synthesis, production, etc. (AKA reagents) can be given grades, and CP was one of them.

As for CP (or C.P.), I believe that most would accept either the Merck Index or the CRC Handbook of Chem. & Physics to be authoritative, even if they do not consider me to be. To verify I had not erred, I did my homework before posting the first time. Both references have CP (CRC) / C.P. (Merck) as the abbreviation for Chemically Pure.

-Jonathan

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Chris Bradley
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Re: Deuterium Lecture bottle

Post by Chris Bradley » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:35 pm

The problem I have found more often here in UK is the 'account' effect, wherein many vendors expect you to sign up to a £multi,000 pa account.

One occasion I could not find a vendor of the high temp Apiezon vacuum wax here in UK for love nor [modest] money. It was available, but to buy it what I needed to do was to set up a business account with a distributor with a £5,000pa minimum spend!

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Re: Deuterium Lecture bottle

Post by vince_Darmancier » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:24 pm

any update on lecture bottle since 2011? someone mentioned advanced specialty gases but they refused to sell it to me back in 2008...
still no go today!

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Re: Deuterium Lecture bottle

Post by Andrew Seltzman » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:18 pm

I posted a writeup here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10336

You will have to have it shipped to a company or university, no one will ship to a residential address. Several members have had success having a welding supply store buy it and ship it to the store for pickup.
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Richard Hull
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Re: Deuterium Lecture bottle

Post by Richard Hull » Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:52 pm

My first bottle of D2 was purchased back in 1998 through the local Welders Supply. I prepaid them at the store, got a receipt and a week or so later was called to come pick it up. When I picked it up, they helped me identify the fitting I needed to mate the bottle to my gauge. They had it in stock.
Commercial purity is quite adequate.

Richard Hull
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Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
Retired now...Doing only what I want and not what I should...every day is a saturday.

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Re: Deuterium Lecture bottle

Post by vince_Darmancier » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:19 pm

Very helpful Andrew ! thank you so much!
I am going to try Matheson`s email today...will post on here with results Richard, but it might be a while..

Chris Mullins
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Re: Deuterium Lecture bottle

Post by Chris Mullins » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:23 am

Unfortunately Matheson appears to have exited the online gas business. I bought a lecture bottle of regular hydrogen from them 18 months ago because they were half the price of the big companies AND would ship to a residential address. I tried to buy another bottle last month, only to find out that all their online gas pages are gone. I got this response from their customer service:

We no longer offer the Lecture Bottles on the online store. I apologize for the inconvenience.

Sigma Aldrich turned me down. A welder's supply store is my next stop.

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