Breakeven Laser Induced Ultradense Deuterium Fusion Claim

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Doug Browning
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Breakeven Laser Induced Ultradense Deuterium Fusion Claim

Post by Doug Browning »

Big news if this is for real:

http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/jo ... /1.4928572

Only a 0.2 Joule laser, some actual Watts of energy output. Only high energy charged particles produced, no neutrons.
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Richard Hull
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Re: Breakeven Laser Induced Ultradense Deuterium Fusion Clai

Post by Richard Hull »

Interesting, very interesting. I just hope they are doing their measurements well. This was the issue with many of the cold fusion reports. Sometimes experimenters in physics can have issues with critical measurements at ultra low levels or with less than optimum metrology for particles.

We will see what becomes of all this. Will it just die a quiet death with further efforts? We get to wait as usual.

Richard Hull
Progress may have been a good thing once, but it just went on too long. - Yogi Berra
Fusion is the energy of the future....and it always will be
The more complex the idea put forward by the poor amateur, the more likely it will never see embodiment
Dan Tibbets
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Re: Breakeven Laser Induced Ultradense Deuterium Fusion Clai

Post by Dan Tibbets »

I don't know the details, but from the article, there are some suppositions, that are suspicious to me. Super dense deuterium? No information on how this exotic state was achieved. A Muon produced from deuterium fusion? I don't think this is possible without throwing out established physics and introducing new...
A Muon takes about 40 MeV to create, and there are no Muons in deuterium, or any other stable atom for longer than a tiny fraction of a second in nature (can briefly exist after absorbing a Muon created by high energy (greater than 40 MeV ) cosmic ray collision in the upper atmosphere or in particle accelerators). The fusion of Deuterium to to Helium 4 (very unlikely as mostly it is Helium 3 + neutron or Tritium + proton as products) does not produce enough energy to form a Muon. I suspect the very unlikely reaction to Helium4 might produce somewhere in the region of 20 MeV and this has only about 1/2 the energy needed to produce a Muon.

This is not the same as Muon capitalized fusion. Here the Muons speed up the fusion reaction, perhaps surviving long enough to promote many fusions before decaying. The Muons are supplied by particle accelerators at considerable energy cost.

Finally, if Muons were produced by fusion reactions in any deuterium density mixture, and it is invoked as the mechanism for multiple LENR experiments (all of which suffer from significant quality control issues) then with several Watts of LENR fusion output, copious Muons would be generated and subsequent decay would be stupendously easy to detect with Geiger counters in or near the reaction chamber.

Dan Tibbets
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Mike Beauford
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Re: Breakeven Laser Induced Ultradense Deuterium Fusion Clai

Post by Mike Beauford »

Well, the Ultradense Deuterium idea has been kicked around for a while... George H. Miley was looking at it for LENR research(1) back in 2010. I'm just curious how they think they are going to make this fuel in the first place? Won't you need to prepare the deuterium and get it into an ultra dense state, won't that take quite a bit of energy? About 3 years ago this came up before (2).

(1) http://acselb-529643017.us-west-2.elb.a ... 048&terms=

(2) http://www.icarusinterstellar.org/ultra ... update-44/
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Doug Browning
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Re: Breakeven Laser Induced Ultradense Deuterium Fusion Clai

Post by Doug Browning »

From the Winterberg abstract here:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 0110004949
Seem to be saying that it gives off energy to form the dense state, which might explain the anomalous heat given off from "cold fusion" experiments. Not real fusion at that point, just a state change. So they are removing most of the Coulomb barrier if true. Apparently from some linear extended Rydberg state.

Edit: found this Arxiv PDF
http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0912/0912.5414.pdf
Jeroen Vriesman
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Re: Breakeven Laser Induced Ultradense Deuterium Fusion Clai

Post by Jeroen Vriesman »

radiation (1064nm) induced metal surface catalysed para- to ortho-deuterium transition of the cooled (adiabatic expanding D2 into to vacuum chamber) D2 gas?

just a wild guess, with spin 1 the ortho-deuterium represent a lower energy state than para-deuterium (the opposite of H2 or T2). The experiment doesn't mention any neutron measurements, personally I would be very interested in the amount of neutrons when producing 2.7W of "fusion" energy, staying alive is kind of important...
Doug Browning
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Re: Breakeven Laser Induced Ultradense Deuterium Fusion Clai

Post by Doug Browning »

I don't think they are talking about molecular species spins. Nuclear spin states most likely. Possibly Rydberg electron spins for the 100 nucleus cluster.

They use an Fe2O3 catalyst to form the condensed Deuterium state (at defect sites). 1,000,000 times denser. Sprinkling a pile of dry powdered Ferrite into a vacuum chamber should make a good deal of the Deuterium disappear if that's true. Put enough deuterium into the chamber and the ferrite might be approaching neutron star material. (exaggeration) I'm getting a bit skeptical about this now. I'm not aware of Magnetite minerals becoming anomalously heavy in nature. You wouldn't be able to lift the stuff if it were heavily defected.
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Mike Beauford
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Re: Breakeven Laser Induced Ultradense Deuterium Fusion Clai

Post by Mike Beauford »

You may actually be able to get a very teeny tiny fraction of the deuterium to form ultra dense islands, but like you said, I don't think this is really viable. I'm still struggling to understand how they will be able to create enough fuel to make this work in real life. Otherwise, we would have this all around us and know about it.
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Jeroen Vriesman
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Re: Breakeven Laser Induced Ultradense Deuterium Fusion Clai

Post by Jeroen Vriesman »

the point of my comment was that the 2.7W of energy might originate from the para to ortho transition of the D2 gas, not from any nuclear reaction.
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