Any Swagelok Gurus out there?

Every fusor and fusion system seems to need a vacuum. This area is for detailed discussion of vacuum systems, materials, gauging, etc. related to fusor or fusion research.
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Rich Feldman
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Re: Any Swagelok Gurus out there?

Post by Rich Feldman » Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:58 am

Cutting to the chase, I bet Corby's fittings are for tube OD of 10 mm. Don't know if they could have been (ab)used with 3/8" copper tubing. Metric tube diameters are no exception to what Jerry taught us, about all sizes using same thread pitch.

Today I measured some fittings that say Parker and Swagelok, on 3/8" stainless steel tubes.
swage_3_8.PNG
Threads are nominal 9/16"-20. Nut is 11/16" hex. Matches the literature. Next size up is for 1/2" OD tube. Nut is 7/8" hex with 3/4"-20 threads.

So Corby's specimens continue to look like oddballs. No, wait a minute.
What if their tube size is 10mm instead of 3/8"? That would have 5/8-20 thread and 18 mm hex nut. Nut and body would have a "metric identification" shoulder. One ref: pages 8 and 9 of this catalog: https://www.hydradynellc.com/images/doc ... ec2012.pdf
alok_metric.PNG
Corby and Rex, can I please join the Hydrostik experimenter's club? I got a couple of 'stiks at Fry's in Palo Alto for $9.95 each. Been thinking about how to compress hydrogen that's generated with chemicals in bottles.
Must agree that the adapters are pretty expensive for what you get. http://www.fuelcellstore.com/hydrostik-fitting You can also get compact, fixed low-pressure regulators that go directly on a Hydrostik.

In case you missed it, here are illustrated instructions from instrument maker Inficon, about how to use & refill Hydrostiks instead of using high pressure hydrogen cylinders directly. The fill cycle maintains H2 pressure at 250 psig for 1 hour. http://products.inficon.com/GetAttachme ... stallation
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Corby Dawson
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Re: Any Swagelok Gurus out there?

Post by Corby Dawson » Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:14 am

Rich,

I think you found it!

The dimensions for the 10mm tube wound be .393" OD vice .375" for the 3/8 tube.

The straight thread noted would match the 5/8 20 I measured!

I put a micrometer on the existing tube and got .394" OD.

Both nuts that I have also have the metric identification shoulder shown!

Thanks for the help!

Now to find some metric tube and nuts with ferrules.

Cheers,

Corby

Rex Allers
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Re: Any Swagelok Gurus out there?

Post by Rex Allers » Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:08 am

Corby,

In my earlier post I asked you a question. Hoping you can answer. You said you bought one of the fittings from Hydrostik output to 1/8 tube. I've seen pictures of them but nothing that gave a look what's inside where it screws onto the Hydrostik. Here's my earlier question...

"So question for you, does the adapter you bought have some kind of fixed pin in the center to press into the hydrostik as the adapter is screwed on?"

From my hacking of the Hydrostik function, it seems to me something needs to poke into the opening of the Hydrostik to open its internal valve and let the H or D gas out. (A little like a car tire valve.) I'm curious to learn what the proper sold adapters are like.

For Rich... More folks involved is better. You prodded me to do more from where I left off. Waiting for some JB-Weld to cure right now, so I can take the next step on my path.

Interesting that you found Hydrostiks at Frys. I'm curious what section they were in?

I think there's some potential goodness for fusors here. I'm a bit nervous that their technology doesn't seem to be finding a market. A year ago I found more on the webs than now. The company Horizon Fuel Cell seems to be who designed and produced this stuff. Rich mentioned Brunton. I'm guessing they licensed it from Horizon. Brunton's focus seemed to be portable, lightweight power for campers. They seemed to offer the same stuff as Horizon but rebranded as Brunton. I don't think that campers have been excited about these products that make electricity from hydrogen cartridges. Just as we are looking into using these technologies as a possible way to share or electrolyse handy anounts of D2, I'm worried that even if it is a good method, the companies making the 'stiks & etc. may be failing.

Oh, well. Got my stuff and continuing down this path.

I'll add more (probably in a different thread) when I have more to share.
Rex Allers

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Rich Feldman
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Re: Any Swagelok Gurus out there?

Post by Rich Feldman » Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:15 am

My very long reply just got deleted by a mistaken mouse click when I was about to post it. My loss, readers' gain. :-)

Much shorter now.
Glad to hear that 10mm was a good answer for Corby.
The hydrogen cores do belong under a different thread title. But for the moment...

I think Rex called it right. Consumer product missed the boat. Rechargeable lithium-ion battery packs might have erased any weight advantage expected by Horizon and Brunton marketing people. "One core can replace 15 AA batteries". At Brunton.com today, the cores are on sale for $8 and the reactors for $68 -- but both "presently unavailable online". Those products, and probably the Hydrolyzer, are easy to find in other online stores.

The cores I got last summer were in the battery aisle at Frys. Today I was in the area, stopped in & found no hydrogen stuff there, not even empty hooks. Computer at help desk said the store was no longer stocking the cores, but had three left at $7 each. Another assistant and I found three at the bottom of a half-full cart of merchandise. All in mangled, customer-returned, taped-shut boxes -- a familiar sight at Frys. Don't know where they've been, or whether they are still full, but I took 'em all.

Computer said there were cores in stock at other regional Fryses: Sunnyvale, Campbell, San Jose, and Fremont at least. Campbell store allegedly still had one Reactor, on clearance for $69.
brunton-hydrogen-reactor-portable-fuel-cell-9.jpg
brunton-hydrogen-reactor-portable-fuel-cell-9.jpg (14.84 KiB) Viewed 3336 times
On my way to Campbell I stopped at REI. Helpers there remembered the reactors having been on shelves at REI more than a year ago, but not recently. At Campbell Frys I found one reactor (the yellow version, as luck would have it), in a box almost mangled beyond recognition. But two fresh-looking cores were in the package where they belong. Salesman, unprompted, gave me an extra discount; I took the reactor home for $64.

Now let's hit the Post button, and talk later about things to do with Hydrogen Reactors and Cores.
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Corby Dawson
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Re: Any Swagelok Gurus out there?

Post by Corby Dawson » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:11 pm

Found a 1/8 tube to 10MM tube adaptor and ordered it along with a chunk of 10mm tubing and a couple 10MM nuts with ferrules.
Once I get it assembled I'll post a PIX!

Cheers,

Corby

Corby Dawson
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Re: Any Swagelok Gurus out there?

Post by Corby Dawson » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:44 am

OK,

I've got all the fittings but the 10mm OD tube I found is WAY to thin.
I need 2mm thick preferable or 1mm in a pinch.
Can't find any in the US, (lots on ebay from China but I want to buy here!) that will let me buy less than $100.00 worth!
All I need is two 4" and two 3" pieces.
Anybody have such that they are willing to sell me?

Thanks,

Corby

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Rich Feldman
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Re: Any Swagelok Gurus out there?

Post by Rich Feldman » Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:14 pm

Would this serve?
mcm.JPG
The temper is hard for straight product and soft for coil product. Copper is not hard (pun intended) to anneal with a torch.

They have 1/2 meter lengths of 316 stainless steel tubing, with 1.5 mm wall, for about the same money. Probably less money when shipping cost is added. I was happy with my McMaster order last year, which coincidentally included straight tubes. Glass capillaries, L 12", OD 5 mm, ID 0.5 or 0.6 mm.
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Corby Dawson
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Re: Any Swagelok Gurus out there?

Post by Corby Dawson » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:40 pm

Rich,

McMaster Carr has the type for compression fittings, 2MM thick at $76.00 + shipping for .5 Meter,

The 1.5mm is for welding connections.

Hoping to find it more affordable but if I have to I know where it is now!

Cheers,

Corby

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Rich Feldman
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Re: Any Swagelok Gurus out there?

Post by Rich Feldman » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:05 pm

Corby,
It's news to this non-guru, if Swagelok fittings require 2 mm thickness and SS tubes.
I bet the 10 mm copper tube in your picture (far up in this thread) isn't much over 1 mm thick.
Same goes for the 3/8" SS tube in my picture, but I will check tonight.

For metal tubing that's too thin, how about an internal metal reinforcing sleeve? As frequently used with common compression fittings on plastic tubing. With Swageloks that would be driving off-road, but aren't you only dealing with _regulated_ pressures? I have a little benchtop lathe & could turn some bushings for you.

[edit]This catalog from Swagelok http://www.swagelok.com/downloads/webca ... 01-107.pdf lists tubes and associated fittings in the diameter range of interest. Choices include SS, steel, and copper, with wall thickness down to or below 0.035" and 1.0 mm.
swt.JPG
How about getting straight 3/8" OD tubing at the hardware store, and bring OD up to 10 mm with an external sleeve that's soldered/brazed/epoxied in place, or a few wraps of copper foil tape. Could it fail any worse than by leaking, which you can check with soapy water?
Mike echo oscar whisky! I repeat! Mike echo oscar whisky, how do you copy? Over.

Corby Dawson
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Re: Any Swagelok Gurus out there?

Post by Corby Dawson » Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:49 pm

Well I ordered the short piece from McMaster Carr!
Wanted to make sure it's correct if I'm at 400+PSI with Hydrogen for years at a time!
Should be able to finish up next week!

Cheers,

Corby

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